Where does that fit into the discussion?
I simply stated that Curly being relatively immune to math in this case, was actually without a need for calculating anything, as it had already been done.
Magura
I am not immune to it, but that calculator that you mentioned does not go far enough to the right of the decimel point
Where does that fit into the discussion?
Magura
To post 5570 of your of course.Or have I missed the point again
Just kidding,your post also made me think of a seller calculating what one has to pay for his cables
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This is very true, and works to our benefit actually.
But then why do you not take advantage of it, instead of worrying about the extremes you can't hear anyway?
Magura
Where did I say that I am looking for the extremes? Harmonics carry well out past what is audible in both directions, but they influence what happens in the audible range quite a bit.
Yes, difference made by a cable, will be bound to be a difference of loss. If you loose something, it is bound to be for the worse.
Where do I say that many cable designers don't know about basic physics ?
That there are many quacks (note that this group I did not include with the designers) in the cable business, hopefully isn't news to you?
Magura
I find it to be looking for extremes, when you know you can't hear anything above like 14-15KHz, and persist to be able to audition cables, which happens to only influence 17KHz+, and that 17KHz being a worst case scenario.
Maybe so, but for sure nothing that happens at 20KHz, has any influence on anything you can hear, and that's where the biggest chance is to find a cable that makes any significant difference.
Magura
I find it to be looking for extremes, when you know you can't hear anything above like 14-15KHz, and persist to be able to audition cables, which happens to only influence 17KHz+, and that 17KHz being a worst case scenario.
Maybe so, but for sure nothing that happens at 20KHz, has any influence on anything you can hear, and that's where the biggest chance is to find a cable that makes any significant difference.
Magura
Maybe in your mind, but I know what I still hear at my advanced age.
I find that your and others idea of what decorum is, in these forums to be laughable. I and others are labeled as trouble makers for personal attacks because of what we hear and know, but then you and others continue to label anyone that does not follow your logic to be "quacks" or delusional. The mods of this board could stop all of the personal attacks if they would moderate with an even hand. Scientist should also be made to respect others opinion, even if they do not agree. If not these battles of who is right or wrong will never cease. I do not know of anyone that has changed what they think about what they hear because someone told them that they could not possibly hear what they say they can. Where do we get off this merry go round and try to get along?
Cable sound theories or beliefs does not resist to a blind A to B testing
The big trouble is that "believers of faith" do not even do those testings....well..they must be submited to testings..... they gonna be evaluated..the listener will be evaluated...while one special cable and common thin telephone wire (for instance) will be switched from A to B.
It is a pity that they do not make those testing to avoid loose their faith.
This is the real pity..not the pity we cannot listen...we cannot listen because there's no difference..just that.
This is the only and main argument they have...that "we just cannot listen"... ahahahaha.
regards,
Carlos
The big trouble is that "believers of faith" do not even do those testings....well..they must be submited to testings..... they gonna be evaluated..the listener will be evaluated...while one special cable and common thin telephone wire (for instance) will be switched from A to B.
It is a pity that they do not make those testing to avoid loose their faith.
This is the real pity..not the pity we cannot listen...we cannot listen because there's no difference..just that.
This is the only and main argument they have...that "we just cannot listen"... ahahahaha.
regards,
Carlos
I am not immune to it, but that calculator that you mentioned does not go far enough to the right of the decimel point
Ha really? You don't think 64-bit is sufficient? Do I need to take up 2 posts worth of numbers to show that you are wrong?
Yes, difference made by a cable, will be bound to be a difference of loss. If you loose something, it is bound to be for the worse.
Where do I say that many cable designers don't know about basic physics ?
That there are many quacks (note that this group I did not include with the designers) in the cable business, hopefully isn't news to you?
Magura
No it is not news to me.
You did not say cable designers don't know about basic physics.You just talk about frequency response of cables and LCR,as if those designers ignore them.I believe that most of those designers know at least what you and many others here know.In fact I would go a bit more far than this and say I believe they know more.
I find it to be looking for extremes, when you know you can't hear anything above like 14-15KHz, and persist to be able to audition cables, which happens to only influence 17KHz+, and that 17KHz being a worst case scenario.
Maybe so, but for sure nothing that happens at 20KHz, has any influence on anything you can hear, and that's where the biggest chance is to find a cable that makes any significant difference.
Magura
Now is 14-15 khz?Please stop there,or I will try to disconnect my speakers tweeters and see if I can hear a difference
Why do you condemn what you do not understand? I appreciate all that science has done for mankind, but I will never blindly accept it as gospel either.
In your mind? It is your choice. I doubt that what ever reason you can produce will influence what I know as fact to be, but take your best shot
No on my supercomputer which I am looking at and which is very cheap to purchase at an average everyday retail outlet. And yeah I can agree on that I doubt you will be open minded to the idea of being wrong about anything.
In one side or the argumentation people that thinks they have born special
that has special ears, golden ears, best brain, special skills, more focused perception, more sensitive auditive system...in other world.... extra terrestrian, astronaut or God!
In the other side people that has their feet into the ground and do not dream or delirate too much.
Cable to speaker does not make difference.... they have resistance, inductance and capacitance..and none of those factors, in 12 feet of cable will result in something to worry about... output zobel has much more capacitance than that.... speaker crossover much more resistance than that.... power amplifier output coils has some inductance too... and amplifiers works with all that stuff.
Cables to line out level, well, those can be broken, shorted or defective.... if broken, shorted or defective may not sound fine..others, golden, stripped, coloured are just unobtanium filled with inexistium with some spice of "donothing"
I love when those guys that believe they are special when they pay hundred times more for a cable...they deserve that..for sure they deserve to be fooled.
They do not submit themselves to an controled A to B blind testing not to be ashamed..everybody will know they were living an illusion and that they have paid a lot for nothing.
regards,
Carlos
that has special ears, golden ears, best brain, special skills, more focused perception, more sensitive auditive system...in other world.... extra terrestrian, astronaut or God!
In the other side people that has their feet into the ground and do not dream or delirate too much.
Cable to speaker does not make difference.... they have resistance, inductance and capacitance..and none of those factors, in 12 feet of cable will result in something to worry about... output zobel has much more capacitance than that.... speaker crossover much more resistance than that.... power amplifier output coils has some inductance too... and amplifiers works with all that stuff.
Cables to line out level, well, those can be broken, shorted or defective.... if broken, shorted or defective may not sound fine..others, golden, stripped, coloured are just unobtanium filled with inexistium with some spice of "donothing"
I love when those guys that believe they are special when they pay hundred times more for a cable...they deserve that..for sure they deserve to be fooled.
They do not submit themselves to an controled A to B blind testing not to be ashamed..everybody will know they were living an illusion and that they have paid a lot for nothing.
regards,
Carlos
Your opinions and you are entitled to them. They do not change what I hear or others. I have learned to listen by being exposed to many, many different high end audio products over the years. I have learned what makes music enjoyable to me and great many customers. I have never strong armed a customer with sales pitches. We simply set up the system, allow them to listen to their own music, and they do the rest. If they liked what they hear, they purchased. If not they go elsewhere. I do not know how any intelligent person can "brainwash" another human, without being held captive and forcing them to be indoctrinated against their will. Are you easily brainwashed?
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Now is that open minded? I can think of a more accurate word. I guess I am talking about being open minded to the idea that you are fallible and your hearing is as well just like everyone else on this planet with a brain.
Special and golden ears are the ears that hear all that is there.Best brains are those that do not deceive........and more................
Have you by any chance mixed-up the camps?
I never said that I was gifted in any manner. I simply know what I am listening to and what I like to hear. Experience with all forms of high end audio equipment for over 20 years has allowed me gain this knowledge. Do you believe everything that you hear? What if someday the science that you base your life on is proven to be wrong. What would you do then?
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Allow me to cast some doubt on your experience. Being accustomed Hi-Fi for the most part makes you a tainted subject in regards to judging realism from my perspective - you are acclimated to human abstractions. I feel I might be a better judge because of my near 20 years playing acoustic instruments. Who is right?
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